Transcript of ‘Headstart’ Interview with Sen. Chiz (Part2)

PASAY CITY, Philippines, Dec. 5 -- The Philippines Senate (16th Congress) issued the following transcript:

DAVILA: I am gonna ask you that, but we will go to a quick break. When we return, we are gonna ask Senator Chiz Escudero, how can they ensure transaparency, check and balance in the 2014 budget. What will change? Hotcopy will be right back, tweet your questions.

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DAVILA: Alright, we are back and we are talking to Senate Finance Committee Chairman Senator Francis "Chiz" Escudero. Let's go back to that earlier report on that SARO connecting into 2014 transparency with the budget. First, how can you ensure that the 2014 budget is more transparent?

FGE: Unlike the previous Karen, let's begin the bicameral committee conference will be in public. As I said it will be on December 10 at 9am in the Senate.

DAVILA: Bakit dati?

FGE: Apparently, hindi. Hindi naman kasi ako miyembro ng bicam noon. Ngayon lang ako nag-chairman ng bicam for the first time. We will make it in public. As far as my understanding goes, dapat public ang mga hearing unles nasa executive session kami.

DAVILA: Kasi before ang mga amendments o milagro, nangyayari duon.

FGE: I talked to my counterpart in the House, Congressman Ungab, all amendments will be on paper or said verbally in the said committee hearing. Those on paper will be made in public and media will be given a copy para malaman kaninong nanggaling. Sa House ba o sa Senate. Now, within the House or Senate, we will have records kung sinong partikular na senador ang nagpropose nun. On the 2014 budget, we have inserted new provisions, such as 1., accountability to assets. Meaning responsible sa pondo; 2. Reportorial requirements to Congress and to COA.

DAVILA: Okay, let's talk about accountability clauses. It didn't come up before?

FGE: Halimbawa, funds na binibigay sa NGO. Funds, nagpapa-implement sa iba.

DAVILA: Who is accountable for that?

FGE: Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me na 'yun, baka maloko tayo muli. Kinlaro namin, accountable yung agency na nagbigay ng pondo doon sa, remember walang pork barrel ngayon. So wala ng intervention ng legislator, according dun sa Supreme Court decision. If the legislator intervenes, that often by itself is illegal. So, we cannot provide for that in the budget anymore. Yung participation ng legislator is like unaccountable kasi he is not allowed to participate anymore.

DAVILA: So, let's say mayroon kang gustong pondohan in the 2014 budget, you have a suggestion, you are not accountable for that fund anymore?

FGE: May gusto akong pondohan, bawal na 'yun Karen. 'Yung i-identify ko yung NGO? Bawal na 'yun.

DAVILA: Pero under the law is a university or its something like that.

FGE: It's in the budget process. Sabi nga ng Supreme Court, post-enactment ang bawal, pre-enactment, let's say budget, gustong magpalagay ng pondo sa PGH, pwede 'yun. Hindi ka-accountable doon dahil may request kang hawak, nilagay mo sa budget. Hindi ka naman magi-implement, wala kang pakialam sa implementaiton. Ang pangalawa, nilagay din namin doon, pagbibigay ng pondo sa mga NGOs, sumunod dapat sa COA at GPPB, procurement policy board rules. Maliwanag naman kasi 'yun. Dapat sundin yung bidding, yung procurement law. Alam mo ba Karen, yung binibid-out yan, hindi mo puwedeng, as a rule, dapat bini-bid out mo yung project among the NGOs. Let them bid among the NGOs and let them bid. Let them bid the lowest amount. And then...

DAVILA: The problem with bidding in some instances is it takes time.

FGE: Yes, but as a rule, that should be followed. Now, if it's an emergency purchase or acquisition, pwedeng negotiated, pwedeng emergency purchase. Pero kung negotiated, ibang rules ang papasok. Biglang kailangan mo ng bond. Biglang kailangan mo ng insurance.

DAVILA: Oo, dapat may perang irelease.

FGE: Oo kasi kung may bid-out, hindi kailangan yun. Pero pag hindi binid-out at negotiated, kailangan may bond to answer for the funds if in case it would be misused.

DAVILA: Ba't by... Oh yeah, all negotiated deals, parang walang bond ang mga kumpanyang binibigay?

FGE: Yun nga yung mali because may COA rules states in so far as NGOs are concerned or dealings with NGOs are concerned, nilagay namin 'yung strict compliance tungkol dun sa COA-NGPB rules and regulations on the Procurement Law.

DAVILA: Okay. Very quick question, will these rules be applied during calamities like case in point? Right now, there is massive housing needed. The NHA clearly cannot do it alone. You have the DSWD already working I think with Habitat for Humanity and Gawad Kalinga. How does that go given your new rules?

FGE: Tatlo ang klase ng procurement, Karen.

DAVILA: Paano 'yun?

FGE: Public bidding, negotiated purchase, emergency purchase. Papasok yang emergency purchase, magkikick-in yang emergency purchase procedure kapagka may kalamidad.

DAVILA: A may emergency procedures?

FGE: Tatlo yun Karen...

DAVILA: Oo.

FGE: We're just... kasi purchase ang tawag dun.

DAVILA: Because there is also an NGO which is legitimate and all they do are classrooms.

FGE: Okay lang.

DAVILA: Ganun din.

FGE: Pero ang ginagawa kasi nila, nakalagay din sa COA rules yun, kapagka negotiated puchase, by tranche ang release. Hindi pwedeng buo-buo. Kunyari nakita mo kay Napoles, 15% liquidate before we release the remaining 15%.

DAVILA: So 'yun ang bagong rule?

FGE:Actually matagal nang rule yun, hindi lang sinusunod. That's why we provided strict compliance in so far as that is concerned.

DAVILA: Okay. Now with strict compliance, it's the agency now who is accountable?

FGE: Yes. Again, hindi ako lumulusot dito Karen ha? Dahil nga bawal nang makialam ang congressman at senador. Why would I provide for rules that are something prohibited? Mere participation, mere recommendation is prohibited already.

DAVILA: Oo, okay. So ang senador hindi na pwedeng mamili ng NGO?

FGE: Ni hindi pwedeng makialam post-enactment o magrekomenda man lang, Karen. In fact talo pa siya ng konsehal o barangay captain o mayor. Ang konsehal, kapitan at mayor, pwedeng magrekomenda ng NGO,. Ang senador hindi. Ang congressman, hindi.

DAVILA: So for the record as we speak, it's not yet illegal for government funds to be given to an NGO?

FGE: No, it's not.

DAVILA: It is not.

FGE: We also require in so far as NGOs are concerned, dapat i-post ng DSWD ang website, updated on a daily basis, lahat ng accredited NGOs. Kasi baka mamaya Karen, pinost kung sabihin nating monthly o quarterly, accredited sila last month o last quarter, this quarter hindi na, nakakatanggap pa rin. So it should be a regular update to be made by the DSWD kung alin-alin lang ba 'yung accredited NGOs in their website.

DAVILA: Actually it escapes me right now but legitimate NGOs say technically 'yun ang to be accredited by this one institution...

FGE: There's an office within the DSWD. In fact, not only NGOs Karen even public solicitation needs to be registered with the DSWD. Kunyari, maglalagay ka ng kahon sa opisina mo, donate to Yolanda victims, that also requires us to follow certain rules. If you're soliciting within the city, we need a permit from the city, within the region, the regional office of the DSWD, kung nationwide you need a [ermission from the DSWD central.

DAVILA: Okay, alright. Now, is there a penalty included in the new transparency laws?

FGE: We did. We provided that the maximum should be imposed, but not on everything Karen, on certain funds on the misused of savings, misused of lump-sum amounts, and misused of calamity-related funds. We said that the maximum penalty should be imposed under the Revised Penal Code, the Anti -Graft and Corrupt Practices Act and the Plunder Law.

DAVILA: Ano yun? Yung penalty?

FGE: Depende sa Revised Penal Code kung ano 'yung ginawa mo, malversation, technical malversation ba o bribery. Depende kung ano 'yung ginawa mo. But if you misused the funds in any way, maximum 'yung penalty na pino-provide namin.

DAVILA: So at this point, lump sums... the 2014 will have lump sums?

FGE: I will go there.

DAVILA: Yes. Lump sums are very controversial.

FGE: Yes, it will. Principally Karen because like calamity finds, we don't know what will hit us and what we will be needing. So definitely it has to be a lump sum. But we required that all of these lump sums will be subject to Section 35, again it's in the law, of the Revised Administrative Code. It basically says "agency availing od lump-sum funds should submit an early budget itemizing the utilization of that lump-sum fund. So 'yung mga lump sum funds, hindi siya automatically released. Ito 'yung maiisyuhan pa ng mga SARO para makita mo 'yung itemization ng lump-sums which we required that this be submitted to Congress, to COA and posted in their websites.

DAVILA: Now, how do you prevent fake SAROs in the 2014 budget? I mean, you just saw that apparently, there were so many fake SAROs already with the originals still pending for signature. How do we prevent that? It seems such a primitive way to actually steal money from a government system.

FGE: Number one, they did not steal the money from the government, Karen. They took advantage of the private person's greed. Pinakitaan siya ng pekeng SARO, 'yung contractor o mayor o governor, at nag-advance sila doon sa nagbigay sa kanila ng SARO. No funds were actually misused from these fake SAROs...

DAVILA: From the government?

FGE: Fake nga, so hindi babayaran ng gobyerno 'yun. Ang nagbayad o naglabas ng perang 'yan, yung contractor o 'yung mayor o governor na akala totoo yun, binigyan na 'yung nagbigay sa kanya ng SARO.

DAVILA: Oo kasi advanced yun?

FGE: Advanced yun.

DAVILA: Okay.

FGE: Secondly, it would be minimized, at least, in the 2014 because about 80-84% of the national budget for 2014 will no longer require a SARO.

DAVILA: Really?

FGE: 'Yung naka-itemize doon sa budget will serve as the released documents already. So it will also facilitate the implementation of projects. 'Di ba, papel pa rin yan. Iniisyu ng DBM so may mga matatagalan, may mga hindi. May papasok pang korupsyon dahil palakasan kung kaninong SARO ang unang lalabas at kung kanino ang mahuhuli. Ito kapagka naka-itemized sa budget...

DAVILA: Oo, itemized na kasi.

FGE: ...yun ang release document. Agencies are authorized to bid them out already.

DAVILA: A, really? So you've come in a way that you've cut one step. That's the good part. You've cut the SARO step.

FGE: The Executive Branch, not us, authorized the agencies with line item allocation to begin the bidding process last November.

DAVILA: To be specific, let's say it's the DPWH. It's the bridge in Bohol. Something like that. That's itemized?

FGE: Yes.

DAVILA: Pwede ganun.

FGE: Hindi na kailangan ng SARO kundi ilalagay yun sa GAA. And a step further Karen. Kung naka-itemized na sya sa DPWH budget, the DPWH already began the procedures last November, short of award because they cannot award the contract yet. Walang pang-pondong pera at appropriation yun e. But short of award. They were able to save at least one and a half months. So by January of 2014, all of these line item projects will hit the ground running para makaabot tayo to the end of the summer months. Yung lahat ng construction, you'll be able to take advantage of the summer months.

DAVILA: Ok. At least that's good news. You've gone one step or two steps to get the red tape out. We'll take another short break. When we come back, our last part of our interview with Senator Chiz Escudero. We'll be right back.

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DAVILA: Alright, welcome back. With us is Senator Francis Escudero. On a quick note, it has so much interest to let people be involved in the budget. Because what happens there is when they're not interested, then they find out insertions after, mistakes after.

FGE: Well yes Karen. Ako Hindi ako interesado dun. I did not take part until I became chairperson of the Committee on Finance, handling the budget. I was concerned with policy, with issues involving the agency but not really the amounts. Now, napilitan kaming ibalanse at alamin yung amounts because at the end of the day, governance is about one thing - allocating scarce resources. If you're able to do that, you can say that we have governed properly.

DAVILA: Now, we just have two minutes to go. How much will the 2014 budget will be?

FGE: 2.268 trillion minus 3.2 billion so that's approximately 2.27 and 7 trillion pesos.

DAVILA: And how much will be borrowed?

FGE: Ang projected borrowings, assuming the revenue targets are met, 266 billion pesos.

DAVILA: Okay. So most of what you're talking about is maybe less than 10% is borrowed?

FGE: Yes. Karamihan dun ay manggagaling sa koleksyons ng BIR. Ang projected collections ng BIR is about 1.5 trillion next year. It's a challenge for the BIR. Ngayong taon lang sila nag-exceed ng one trillion. 400 billion of that will be coming from the Bureau of Customs. The remaining balance, minus the deficit, will be coming from non-tax revenues, such as BTR revenues, treasury revenues.

DAVILA: Can you imagine the stress and the burden on BIR Commissioner Kim Henares. You have 1.5 trillion of the budget coming from the BIR. One quick note of the Customs. Your reaction that there's an OIC and it's Undersecretary of Finance. Ruffy Biazon, of course, is...

FGE: Well, hopefully, mas maganda at maayos yung pagtakbo sana.

DAVILA: But wait, are you satisfied with the performance of Biazon?

FGE: I don't think he ever met the targets. I mean he's a nice guy. He is a friend of mine from the House of Representatives but performance-wise, I don't think Customs ever met any of their targets. Nothing really changed since the president sat. Yung mga kwento na nawala yung lagayan dyan o hindi, malinis na ba o madumi ba, nothing really changed. And it's one of the forefront agencies. That could be a showcase na malinis ang gobyerno, wala nang lagayan dito. I did not feel that really.

DAVILA: Alright. Last words. Talk about the Yolanda rehab, the budget on that.

FGE: A hundred billion will be allocated next year. Naka-allocate, hindi lang sa Yolanda. All the previous calamities and disasters...

DAVILA: Including Zamboanga?

FGE: Including Zamboanga. Hanggang ngayon, hindi pa naman na-aaddress. Hindi lang itong Yolanda, pati earthquake, Santi, Zamboanga siege.

DAVILA: Lahat yun?

FGE: Lahat yun. Lahat yun kasama dito sa 14.6 billion. Even wider. Pablo, Sendong, Odet, kasama dun sa 14.6 billion na inaprubahan namin kagabi.

DAVILA: Alright, on that note Senator Chiz Escudero, thank you for coming. I have to say this, I learned a lot from you today about the budget. That's Headstart today. I'm Karen Davila.

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