Free Press panel: Was there a winner between Biden and Trump in 'bar fight' of a debate?

Biden, meanwhile, attempted to stay more even-keeled amid the president's constant attacks, but also hurled some of his own invective, calling Trump a "clown" and a "fool." In all, the 1 1/2-hour-long debate was a donnybrook that the moderator, Fox News host Chris Wallace, watched go out of control on several occasions.

The Free Press engaged a panel of five people -- a political science professor, two consultants, a debate director and an undecided Oakland County voter -- to watch the debate and give their opinions about it. Here's what they told us:

What were Trump’s most effective arguments? What were his worst moments?

David Dulio, political science professor, Oakland University: Trump is clearly most comfortable and most confident when talking about the economy. He did a good job in creating contrast with Biden on the continuing economic response to COVID -- "open up" vs. "shutdown." Trump missed an opportunity to go into more detail on criminal justice reform that was passed in a bipartisan manner and he signed. On the negative side, it was clearly Trump's strategy to frustrate Biden by continually poking him and interrupting him. At some points it worked, but did he go too far?

Karen Dumas, Democratic political consultant in Detroit: His statements were all defensive, self-fulfilling and often inflammatory. That's good if you don't know better or take time to fact-check. They feed into those who are emotionally fueled by his bullying approach. (As for his worst moments), as a communicator, I have to condemn his overall approach: He walked out with an angry demeanor and his rude, personal attacks were highly unprofessional. Best moment: The comment/reminder about VP Biden's 1994 crime bill (which critics say resulted in higher incarceration rates for Blacks). Sad, but true.

Ronda Clements, 60, of West Bloomfield, an undecided voter and retired worker for the state: President Trump ... had no direct answers to any of the questions. He was argumentative toward the moderator and Vice President Biden and did not allow the debate to be conducted correctly. (He) was able to state clearly what he believed he has accomplished (but) attempted to scream down and out-talk both the moderator and Vice President Biden. President Trump did not allow the public to hear (the answers). (He) focused on what others have done and not what he plans to do if he wins the election.

John Sellek, owner of Harbor Strategic public relations in Brighton and former state director of Republican Mitt Romney's presidential campaign in Michigan: From a purely strategic analysis, Trump from the start showed more energy and sought to control the debate through constant interruptions that hamstrung both Biden and Wallace, limiting Biden’s ability to make the debate a clear referendum on Trump’s record and aiming for headlines that reflected a brawl, not a particular issue. This was different than the (Republican) convention that aimed at bringing women Republicans lost in 2018 back into the fold. Trump badgered Biden into trying to disown Bernie Sanders ( "I am the Democratic Party” will not play well -- Biden's response to Trump's assertion that he's beholden to the extreme liberal wing of the party) and in the process planted some doubt about Biden’s policies, but the style in which he achieved it is the same style that drove college-educated white women away. Both missed opportunities, such as Biden refusing to disown radical ideas like court packing and Trump missing the chance to firmly criticize racial injustice. Overall, Trump reassured his supporters and those who like his willingness to pull no punches.

Aaron Kall, director of debate, University of Michigan: President Trump made persuasive arguments about why he should be able to fill a vacant Supreme Court seat before an election, especially since the Senate is currently controlled by Republicans. The appointment of judges has historically been an issue important to his base and their turnout. President Trump benefited by this being this first question of the evening, when most people are watching the debate.

What were Biden’s most effective arguments? What were his worst moments?

Dulio: Biden did a good job talking directly to the camera at times. (He) had a few strong statements -- on COVID and why he’d be better than Trump in office, in particular -- which he delivered clearly and confidently. He also made a passionate appeal out of the blue about his son ( (his late son, Beau Biden, fought in Iraq and was Delaware attorney general before dying of brain cancer in 2015; Biden used it to draw attention to a report, which Trump has denied, that he called war dead "losers.") Biden (also) did a nice job on climate change, but how high on the list of important issues is that for the public? On the negative side, I wonder if blaming Trump for the current recession is something that works with the public. Most Americans understand that having to shut the economy down is the cause of the recession. Biden said "I’m totally against defunding the police" and "the Green New Deal is not my plan." Will that come back to hurt him with the progressive wing of the Democratic Party?

Dumas: His comments about the approach taken by the Trump administration in response to the pandemic, reminding us about the passive and unjustified approach and proposed solutions to responding to the disease (and) saying ... Trump doesn't care about citizens. I did appreciate him blatantly telling the president to "just shut up, man." That was deserved. His worst was his inability throughout to accurately distinguish/recall details (about) Medicare/Medicaid and the COVID numbers. Good messages, but his stumbling fed into the accusations of him being off-base when he needed to be nearly flawless to quiet the critics.

Clements: Vice President Biden talked to the people more and answered the moderator's questions more directly. (He) also screamed and tried to out-talk President Trump. Biden addressed the public and did not fact check President Trump (on some issues). (But he) stated plans for if he were to win the election on how to resolve some of the issues facing the U.S. today.

Sellek: Biden did what he does best, sounding like a decent, humane guy and came prepared for an attack on his abilities by rattling off a stream of stats. His best moments came early, especially his attempt to equate the Supreme Court fight to things that matter to people, especially women, including health care and reproductive rights. And later, when seeking to inspire unity regarding racial justice issues. His smile and headshake were the main methods of emulating Ronald Reagan’s famous “there you go again,” to limited effect. And his frustration showed. “Will you shut up, man?” and “Keep yapping” will end up on T-shirts but undercut his goal of looking more presidential. Biden appeared to tire down the stretch, which was likely a goal of Trump’s constant badgering, looking for a major gaffe that did not occur. Overall Biden was flat but showed he is competent enough to handle debates and more.

Kall: Vice President Biden was extremely effective on the issue of coronavirus. He was able to successfully connect this to other major issues, such as the economy, race and healthcare. He's gone through a tremendous amount of hardship in his life and was able to express empathy directly to the camera and the American people. Conversely, President Trump mostly looked and focused on his opponent during the debate.

How do you think the moderator handled the debate?

Dulio: Poor Chris Wallace. The moderators in the next debates are going to have to do better on controlling the discussion.

Dumas: Always the respected and consummate professional, I think he was fair and equally challenged both participants on facts and behavior, but tonight he failed to do what I doubt anyone could do -- prevent Trump from turning what was supposed to be a debate into an open argument and shouting match with an unruly child.

Clements: (He) stated the expectations of the behavior from both parties at the beginning of the debate. He had to reintegrate the guidelines on several occasions. The questions on the Supreme Court, COVID-19, election integrity, race and violence in our cities, the economy and Trump's and Biden's histories were all taken into a personal arena instead of keeping it in the political arena.

Sellek: No moderator was going to be able to control this type of event. Chris Wallace is no pushover but at times sounded like a substitute teacher having a bad day. Only later in the debate did he get more forceful and by then it was too late. The campaigns would never agree to it, but shutting off the mics after timed intervals is the only way to bring order to this.

Kall: Chris Wallace will be criticized for letting a circus-like atmosphere develop on the debate stage. The reality is there (was) nothing else he could have done short of cutting off microphones, which is not a realistic option. Despite the interruptions, he did his best to make sure the candidates had an equal amount of time and let the viewers decide what they thought of the debate performances. It was a victory just to have a completed debate given all the acrimony and tensions that existed.

Who do you think won the debate?

Dulio: The American people did NOT win in this debate. That's the clear result.

Dumas: Not sure this was a debate... it was more like a school-yard battle or talent night at a nursing home. The interrupting, back-and-forth and mumbled jabs were painfully unprofessional and distracting.

Clements: Neither. They both need to focus more on the issues and less on personal attacks. The debate was more of a bar fight than an actual debate to shed light on what the public needs to know to make an intelligent decision.

Sellek: Overall, it will go down as one of the worst debates in modern presidential history but also one that reflected 2020. Three people talking over each other means no one really made progress. No one won this debate. I’m not sure anyone came into it trying to win, but really just tried to get out alive.

Kall: There were no winners, as voters were denied a substantive and policy-focused evening. Joe Biden came into the evening leading in national and battleground polls. He's had a pretty stable and consistent lead for over a year. Nothing that happened tonight is likely to significantly change the tenor of the race. The process and even necessity of presidential debates will be discussed at length in the coming days. The Biden campaign probably won't have any problem with this dynamic.

Contact Todd Spangler at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter @tsspangler. Read more on Michigan politics and sign up for our elections newsletter.

This article originally appeared on Detroit Free Press: Free Press panel: Was there a winner between Biden and Trump in 'bar fight' of a debate?

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