News 4 sits down in-depth with Republican candidates vying for Oklahoma Insurance Commissioner

OKLAHOMA CITY (KFOR) — With early voting underway for next Tuesday's primary runoff, News 4 sat down with both Republicans vying for Oklahoma insurance commissioner—an office that's drawing more attention than usual amid sky-high insurance premiums that have outpaced even neighboring states.

News 4 sits down with State Superintendent Lindel Fields

Candidates Bob Sullivan and Marty Quinn both have insurance experience.

Sullivan's an independent agent and broker.

Quinn started as an agent with Shelter Insurance before moving to the corporate side of things, later serving in the state legislature.

What made you want to run?

QUINN: "It's my past. It's where I have, my career, for about 40 years. And so it's a natural fit… You want the most experienced person at the helm doing that. And so we've been an agent. We've been a manager. But I tell people, one of the most qualifying aspects for me is that I've been a consumer a lot longer than I have, in the insurance industry. So we've paid our premiums. We've had our claims. We've also had our frustrations. The biggest issue, just as affordability is the fact that we've got to be, more accountable, we've got to protect the consumer. That's the number one issue, in my opinion."

SULLIVAN: "Obviously everyone has a personal reason for wanting to seek office, and this one in particular is very personal to me. My mother lives in the house I grew up in and is, you know, living by herself on a fixed income. And the affordability of homeowner's insurance is at some point likely to dictate whether she can afford to live in that home for the remainder of her days, which is her desire… So seeking to make a more systemic change and a systemic improvement to the Oklahoma insurance marketplace is very near and dear to my heart."

What do you see as the main, fundamental role and purpose of the Insurance Commissioner?

QUINN: "The commissioner's job is to make sure that companies are financially stable enough to do business in the state. Now, when there's bad actors—he has obligations to hold those companies accountable."

SULLIVAN: "There has to be a line drawn, and there has to be a focus and an advocate for the consumer, because ultimately the game board is tilted in favor of the insurance companies… They draft the policies. They have complete say-so into the contractual nature of those insurance policies, and they're going to draft it to the benefit of their shareholders and stakeholders. That's why we need an insurance commissioner to level the playing field, so to speak, and be that advocate for the consumer in what oftentimes is a very complex and complicated contractual relationship… Get into the weeds and looking at the actuarial data that insurance companies provide the department and, frankly, making them show their work and justify their rates, because traveling around the state for as long as I have not just campaigning, but as an agent, this has been a problem for some time now."

When you look at the insurance marketplace in Oklahoma as a whole, what about it seems like it's working to you, and what do you think isn't working and needs fixing?

QUINN: "Well, let's venture that, you know, you're going to have to make an assessment once you get there on some things. And what other states are doing or not doing. We'll need to assess that once we get there. What I do know is, is our prices are too high. And, but we've also had several years of bad losses. I mean, when you look at the last six years, I think five out of those six years have been tremendous losses. It also coincides with the fact that inflation rates were some of the highest during that period of time. But, you know, in my opinion, it's just one of those things that we've got to go in and start looking at details. For example, when you visit with roofers, the roofers know that there's bad actors inside that industry, but there's a lot of good roofers, and those folks want to clean up that industry. And an example of that, I think the biggest example of that is the out-of-state bad actors, that they fly in here as quick as they can. They swarm the area where the storm has happened. They bring in bad contracts that are designed for them to be able to collect a check and get out of town as fast as possible, and we've got to stop that. We're going to have to have the help of the Municipal League, the cities and municipalities across the state. We're going to have to have help from counties, because not all the all the claims come from a city. They happen out in the county as well. And then law enforcement is going to have to play a role in that to hold them accountable with whatever punishment is there. That's one of the first things that we've got to do to try to help save wasted money because of the fraud that's associated with that. These companies come in and they prey on the more vulnerable."

SULLIVAN: "Right now, I think the greatest outcry from the public and the public sentiment is that we don't have a competitive marketplace in the state of Oklahoma. We have too few companies writing coverage. And frankly, affordability is not even a part of the conversation with regard to the competitive nature of Oklahoma's insurance marketplace. And for as long as I can remember, Oklahoma has been a use-and-file state. Insurance companies can come and go as they please with regard to how they shift and change their rates and the premiums they charge policyholders in the state. That's going to change next July with the passage of House Bill 3781. So the Insurance Department and the Commissioner's office will have far greater authority and oversight over the rates and premiums being charged by insurance companies for coverage in the state of Oklahoma. That I think is a long time coming. That's a modernization of our regulatory environment, much more in line with our neighboring states. And I think that's absolutely needed… Ultimately what you measure matters. And if you're not requiring insurance companies to provide rigorous and sophisticated data to justify their rates, they're probably going to be getting away with charging a higher premium than maybe they deserve to charge. And honestly, that having that hand on the throttle, so to speak, is something I think is needed in the State of Oklahoma. And we need that from a regulatory standpoint."

What is your strategy to get companies to lower their premiums and save Oklahomans money on insurance long-term?

SULLIVAN: "It's a multifaceted approach. We certainly are going to focus on bringing new competitive carriers into Oklahoma's landscape. Companies that don't currently write coverage in the state of Oklahoma. I think if one or two insurance companies come into the state we will see immediate price decreases from the markets that are already here trying to defend their market share… We also have to keep an eye on the overall risk characteristics of the state of Oklahoma… We have had a program in the state of Oklahoma to focus on 4 to 5 building materials and promoting better quality of construction in the homeowner space. I certainly want to see that continue and expand. I think we need to have as an option for Oklahomans, something akin to a health savings account… We call it the deductible and disaster savings account, something that would allow Oklahomans, and potentially their employers to help fund the wind and hail deductibles that were already retaining on most of our policies in the homeowner space these days… a program like that would allow Oklahomans to proactively and actively manage their risk."

QUINN: "We've got to make sure that we have legal reform in Oklahoma. New York, of all places—their fraud became so bad that they, they've had legal reform… Florida is the best example of what's happened recently. USAA just announced about $1 billion that they were giving back to their policyholders. That's a direct result from their legal expenses going from $3.4 billion to $117 million. There's other things associated with that, but—and almost immediately—here's one of the other things that will happen because of that. When they changed—or when they made those legal reforms, the companies said, 'you know what? We can be competitive in Florida.' So they started announcing that they were coming back in to do business in Florida. The other thing that happened was that, almost immediately, these companies started filing for rate decreases. So those are some things that Oklahoma's more than capable. Georgia did it. Louisiana has done it. Oklahoma is more than capable of doing that. That's one of the first things that, if we get accomplished, that insureds across the state will start seeing the effects of their rates going down. Now, if it doesn't happen, then we're going to have to slowly but surely correct some of the other areas we mentioned, the roofing aspect of it."

What about people who say legal reform is just a way to rig the court system in favor of insurance companies to keep average people from having the power to sue and hold them financially accountable when they rightfully need to?

QUINN: "Yeah, I'd say that's the devil talking. No, we don't want to— We don't want to take away any legitimate lawsuit from any individual. We do want to take away frivolous lawsuits."

The state is suing State Farm and Allstate alleging they carried out a scheme to systemically deny valid claims in Oklahoma. What are your thoughts on these lawsuits and do you believe the state should continue pushing them forward?

QUINN: "What has to happen is—whether it's through the commissioner's office doing market conduct surveys and holding them accountable that way or whether it's through the AG's office that feel like that there's been something done criminally, to hold them accountable—and that that regard, if it's proven, companies have to be held accountable, plain and simple. We need to work through these issues and have all of the companies that want to do business. We've got about 50 companies that are licensed to do business in the state that are sitting on the sidelines. So we've got to make sure that we do our job as commissioner's office to encourage other companies to come in to Oklahoma and have a business that creates competition… It's just like business in other areas. The more competition that you have, more times than not it drives prices down… If you have an environment that that companies can make a profit in, they're going to want to do business. If it's an environment that they can't make a profit and stay financially stable, they won't do business."

SULLIVAN: "It's not something that brings joy to my heart, hearing that insurance companies are alleged to be scamming people out of their out of their benefits with regard to their insurance premium or insurance claim payments. And I think that if we don't have a watchdog for the consumer in the insurance commissioner's office, then things like this are going to run rampant. And I think that's evidenced in the lawsuits that you referenced, are a symptom of a lack of oversight and lack of proper oversight with regard to how insurance companies behave themselves in the state of Oklahoma. I'm confident that when everything's brought into the light of day and, and we'll have a judgment of some sort with these two cases that we'll be able to move on and heal."

Oklahomans say they want the insurance commissioner to have their backs against companies they feel increasingly powerless against, rather than someone insurance companies have bought and paid for to protect profits above all else. Are you the man for that job?

SULLIVAN: "I 100% am. We made the commitment from day one of this campaign that we were going to turn away and not seek any kind of campaign financing from insurance companies or their executives, and we've had to put our money where our mouth is… I am invested in Oklahoma first, and putting those Oklahoma families and policyholders first is a key component of my vision for the state of Oklahoma… There's a long and storied history of insurance commissioners in the State of Oklahoma receiving significant amounts of money from the insurance companies that it's their job to regulate. I like my sleep at night, and I like to go to bed at night knowing that I haven't made a decision or had a conversation where I would have been biased in some form or fashion based on who funded my campaign."

QUINN: "Well, here's what I would tell you. The difference between me and my opponent is that there's a track record. My opponent can tell you what he's going to do, but there's no proof that he will. You don't know whether there's going to be a, a conservative approach or whether it's going to be a liberal approach. On my side of the ticket, you can see that I have a track record… When it comes to, you know, the big companies or the people that that buy into your campaign, those type things—again, go look at my record. There's been times that I've supported the Blue Cross Blue Shields of the world. There's been times that I've supported the oil and gas industry. But there's also times that I have fought against things in those areas that I disagreed with, because I didn't think it was in the best interests of the consumer… As long as [insurance companies are] not taking advantage of the consumer, we're going to try to find ways to help the industry, whether that's other industries outside of insurance, or whether it's the insurance industry itself. But I am the best example of, of, having someone in that office that has the strength, has the courage to stand up against the big companies, but at the same time work with the companies to create an environment that we have more choices, more companies wanting to do business here. But they're not going to control me. They never have, and they never will."

Campaign finance records show the largest share of Bob Sullivan's donors come from the legal field (lawyers, prosecutors, etc.), while the largest share of Marty Quinn's donors come from the insurance field (large amount of state farm agents, insurance industry PACs, etc.). How can voters trust you won't be a puppet for your donors' interests?

QUINN: "So there's a difference between the company and agents that live in these communities that are businesspeople just like everybody else… The evidence is in my legislative career. You won't— you won't. Difficult matters— Whether it's taxes— whether it's any of the other things that are important to individuals—in that legislative record that I have, you can go see, it's black and white."

SULLIVAN: "There are a significant number of attorneys who fight insurance companies day in and day out as a part of their job as professionals in the in the legal profession and the consistent feedback that I'm hearing from them is that insurance companies are intentionally making lives difficult for people in the state of Oklahoma, and they want to see an insurance commissioner that's going to advocate for those policyholders."

What is biggest issue you want to address on day one in office?

QUINN: "Day one is consumer protection. But underneath consumer protection is rights. Legal reform… For us to lower prices, we have to go to where that we're going to receive the most bang for our buck. And that's legal reform."

SULLIVAN: "Obviously the affordability component of it is paramount in my mind. And frankly, that's where we're going to spend a lot of our time initially focusing… Ultimately, it comes down to trust. Insurance is built on a bedrock of trust. Otherwise it doesn't work at all. If that policyholder can't trust that they're partnering with somebody who's going to treat them right and help them on what's often the worst days of their life, then this is all for naught. And we have to restore that system of trust and restore that accountability."